CultureWatch

Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...

Morally Derelict Christian Leaders

Aug 14, 2017

If there ever was an issue that should separate the men from the boys, the wheat from the tares – spiritually speaking – it would be the current attack on marriage by the homosexual activists. If there ever was a time for Christian leaders to stand strong and issue a clarion call to the troops, this would be it.

Yet incredibly I have seen a number of Christians and so-called Christian leaders – even those claiming to be evangelical, Bible-believing Christians – trying to tell us that they will not tell anyone how they should vote on the homosexual marriage issue.

They claim that this is an issue where we can just all agree to disagree on, and that it is not their place as Christian leaders to say one way or another what the appropriate Christian response might be. So they will just straddle the fence on this one and not direct their flocks on this vital issue.

dereliction 1Say what? There is no right or wrong answer to this for the Christian? It is just one of those up in the air, do your own thing sort of issues? It is something all Christians can disagree on, and there is no biblical stance to be found here? Really?

But many of these same spineless wonders have penned lengthy pieces on the homosexual marriage issue and the postal vote. However it is mainly all waffle, bubble and froth. They foolishly run with all the sorts of things which we expect the homosexual militants and atheists to say.

Thus they ramble on and on about how you can’t impose Christian morality onto others; we live in a pluralistic society and we must just go with the flow; we must just be peacemakers; we want to make everyone feel welcome and inclusive; etc etc. Oh good grief!

Um, where have I heard all this nonsense before? Where else have we seen spiritual leaders go missing in action at crucial times? Oh yeah: back when the slavery debate was still raging in America and England especially, there were plenty of these so-called Christian leaders who thought they could just sit on the fence on this issue.

They refused to take a stand when it was so greatly needed, and they were derelict in their duty as shepherds of God’s flock to provide proper moral and spiritual guidance. “Oh, the people can decide. Who am I to impose my values on others? We can all just agree to disagree here – no biggee!”

While they should have been offering solid biblical leadership on the issue, they were far too often silent. And worse yet, they sometimes even supported the slavery cause, sometimes even owning slaves themselves. When society most desperately needed their clear trumpet sound, they were out of action, or simply all over the place.

The words of Paul found in 1 Corinthians 14:8 come to mind here: “If the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?” When the people of God need crystal clear leadership on the crucial social and moral issues of the day, where are the church leaders?

Why are so many silent, sitting on the fence, or sending out unclear calls? Shame on them. And of course we see the same thing happening on another vitally important moral issue of our time: abortion. One would have thought that every Christian leader in the West would be sending out clear and certain words about this great evil.

But so many say nothing, or equivocate on the issue, or even side with the baby killers. Shame again. These are not shepherds of the flock. They are hirelings. They are not true pastors and ministers of God, but false leaders and false prophets.

While these shepherds have a duty of care to their followers, what we see are blatant and ugly cases of the dereliction of duty. They have failed their sheep big time. More crucially, they have failed God big time. And they will one day answer to him.

My daily Scripture reading today included Jeremiah 23, and the first two verses sure seem appropriate here:

“Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!” declares the Lord. Therefore this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: “Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done,” declares the Lord.

Yep, sounds just like these craven, carnal, men-pleasing shepherds who will never rock the boat, who will never speak out on the things that matter, and who just think they can sit back and allow all this evil to engulf the land. They have a lot to answer for.

While the word ‘shepherd’ in the Old Testament can often speak to political leaders as well as religious leaders, let me concentrate on the latter here. Philip Graham Ryken, commenting on this passage, says this:

When the sheep are destroyed and scattered, the shepherds are to blame. A declining church is a sign of a declining ministry. How many ministers are personally unacquainted with the living Christ? How many do not have absolute confidence in the perfection of God’s Word? How many have compromised their teaching or their morals according to the spirit of the present age? In other words, how many shepherds “have scattered [God’s] flock and driven them away and not bestowed care on them” (v. 2a)? Sometimes shepherds behave more like wolves. “Why, pastor,” one might say, “what big teeth you have!” God loves the sheep of his pasture; so he keeps an eye on his shepherds. He holds pastors accountable for their shepherding. If they will not take care of God’s flock, God will take care of them.

These hirelings are in fact fleecing the flock of God, and they will one day give an account for their sin, compromise and abandonment of their own people. I would not want to be in their shoes on that day. In the meantime we must stand strong, even if we are but a remnant.

The trendies, the men-pleasers, the cowards, and the compromisers will tell you there is no right or wrong answer as to homosexual marriage. Well, I am here to tell you there is indeed a right and wrong answer. And it is not all that hard to figure out.

There is only one right answer here: we must resolutely oppose this full-scale assault on marriage as we stand up for God’s divinely ordained institutions of heterosexual marriage and family. If we fail to stand strong in this hour of great need, we are worse than useless and have forsaken our Lord.

I will not be among that crowd.

[1137 words]

45 Responses to Morally Derelict Christian Leaders

  • Who am I to impose my values on others? Fair point, but those advocating for SSM seem to have no problem imposing their values on all of us. And what of the fact that marriage isn’t a matter of our values, but of God’s? What of polygamy, or pederasty, or bestiality? Would such leaders also advocate NOT opposing such things lest we impose values on others?

  • Good article Bill. I would not be at all surprised if these ‘leaders’ are also compromised on the clear teaching in Genesis, that God created the world in six days some 6,000 years ago and that there was a global Flood. Compromise very often begins there and just extends to the rest of the Word of God. I’ve had oodles of discussions with such people and it does not matter what scriptures you bring up. It’s like water off a duck’s back.

  • To Bill,

    This is a brilliant article. Well done! Priests are responsible to their flocks. They should provide guidance to their congregation. You mentioned abortion. I believe that this is a terrible thing. We should encourage women to keep their pregnancies. Can you please write an article on abortion? This issue affects the whole of society. We now have an ageing society. Can you please provide bible verses that relate to abortion? Sometimes the SSM marriage and LGBT people are more “preachy” than any Christian. Regards Helen.

  • Thanks Helen. Well, I have written 334 articles on abortion already – see here for the full list: billmuehlenberg.com/category/ethics/abortion/

    And I have written a book on the issue as well, with the second half of it fully devoted to the biblical material on abortion: www.koorong.com/search/product/life-death-matters-the-challenge-of-abortion-bill/9781518742613.jhtml

    Or here: www.amazon.com/Challenge-Abortion-Life-Death-Matters/dp/1518742610/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1502685599&sr=1-1

  • Bill, I intend to stand firm in my Christian convictions against SSM, and your decisiveness and forthright declaration gives me courage, as well as the knowledge that God will give me the strength to face the inevitable backlash. Thank you. You are always in my prayers, and I thank God that He has a warrior like you standing up for His Word.

  • Many thanks indeed Jan.

  • Bill, can you list some examples of church leaders who have offended.
    I think that would be instructive for everyone

  • Hi Bill,
    Yes, even evangelical Christians.

    Yesterday I sent some Powerpoint files to my Christian friends, supporting the NO complain for same sex marriage. The files are two leaflets that can be printed and letterboxed. I encouraged them to use them and send them on.

    One early reply from a Baptist friend of over 20 years surprised me. Amongst other things the reply said; ” Sorry I cannot agree with this lack of compassion. It is not in my understanding at all of who Jesus is. Please do not send me any more fundamentalist, judgemental rubbish. I am all for same-sex marriage. You give Christians a bad name and gay people will never feel welcomed in churches with this attitude. Jesus loved the marginalised. He did not condemn what they did. He accepted them.”

    WOW all the predictable stuff from the religious Christian background Left.

    I found this more than profoundly sad. Until now I would have recommended that church in that town.

    We are needing to steel ourselves on this issue for our family and friends may take the opposite view and break communication on this issue if not a relationship.

    Now is the time to letterbox drop.

  • I visited the Waverley Baptist Church on Lum Road, Wheelers Hill, Melbourne yesterday. There was a breath of fresh air as I heard for the very first time ever from the pulpit when the senior pastor, David O’Brien, spoke very clearly from the Bible about homosexual and SSM. If only pastors from every church would stand on truth like Pastor David.

  • Absolutely correct, Bill. Some of my Bible reading today; the words of a different Jesus to the one Bruce Knowling’s Baptist friend preaches:-

    Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it also shall be in the days of the Son of Man.
    Luk 17:27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and the flood came and destroyed them all.
    Luk 17:28 So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
    Luk 17:29 but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all.
    Luk 17:30 Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
    Luk 17:31 In that day he who shall be on the housetop, and his goods in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise, he who is in the field, let him not return to the things behind.
    Luk 17:32 Remember Lot’s wife.

    (MKJV)

  • Yet another brilliant piece, Bill.

    I experienced this Christian cowardice today when I learned that a Christian fundraising dinner where former Deputy Prime Minister and NO vote campaign leader Mr John Anderson is the guest speaker does not want him to not speak about the marriage plebiscite. Even though this dinner is on October 21st, right in the middle of the plebiscite.

    Why?

    Because they have given the catering contract for the dinner to a practicing homosexual who supports same-sex marriage.

    And why did they do that?

    I was told it’s because he’s famous — he was on MasterChef — and with a big name like him they expect to sell more tickets and raise more money.

    When Christians silence Christians while taking their money under false pretences, what hope is there?

  • The Moderator General of the Presbyterian Church of Australia sent a letter to all congregations urging us to vote NO.

  • Oh I just read your link to the article written by Nathan Campbell. Incredible. This man actually thinks it is loving and doing good to others to help them on their way to hellfire. Does he really think, when people vote to promote such things, that God is not aware that they are advocating the opposite of what He plainly said? Would they not just prefer to slap Jesus in the face in person? How do these people not choke on the words “let thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven” when they are plainly promoting the opposite. How do they just simply ignore God saying that these sorts of things were the reason He destroyed some nations and cities? Can this man really imagine any of the patriarchs doing what he suggests? Would Abraham or Peter or John do what he advocates? “Do unto others…” seriously? He really thinks promoting sin is doing that? It just proves, yet again, the power of media propaganda and how people can rationalize anything once they go down the path of ignoring the truth.

  • Yes an appalling article Michael. Sadly there are many more like that floating around at the moment. These gutless wonders who just try to accommodate the spirit of the age offer us nothing of help here, and simply make the case for the militants seeking to ram all this through. The stupid ‘you’re imposing your morality’ baloney is among the worst of this useless piece. I have dealt with such groundless objections at length elsewhere:

    billmuehlenberg.com/2015/07/20/are-christians-forcing-their-morality-on-others/

    As I said, Jeremiah 23:1-2 sure seems relevant here.

  • Dear Alison, the itinerant evangelist who is the organiser of the fundraising dinner I wrote about above is I believe officially a Presbyterian pastor.

    Do you think It would be worthwhile if we wrote to the Moderator General to tell him that one of his is silencing John Anderson’s views on ssm all because the pastor’s youth focused movement places greater importance on a homosexual pro-ssm chef who they don’t want to offend — could he/would he intervene?

  • The Rev John Wilson, Moderator General (National Leader) of the Presbyterian Church has spoken out in no uncertain terms and called on Presbyterians to vote ‘No’. His letter can be found at presbyterian.org.au together with a resolution of the 2016 General Assembly to the same effect.

  • Dear Bob, if you are replying to my comment thank you but what I was wanting to know is if Rev Wilson is able to instruct an itinerant evangelist who comes under the Presbyterian umbrella to not silence John Anderson and allow him to talk about ssm at this fundraising dinner on October 21st? It’s a serious question, I’m Baptist and I don’t know how the Presbyterian Church works in matters of discipline of wayward pastoral staff. I want to write to him but if he doesn’t have the power to do anything I will just stick to raising awareness in the Australian Chinese Christian community, the target market for this fundraising dinner.

  • Hi Bill, I read that piece by Nathan Campbell last week. While I disagreed overall with his view, some of his points seemed to have merit.
    Whilst you are obviously busy, I know I personally would find it useful if you addressed his article point by point.

    Cheers.

  • Thanks Anthony. There are just so many of these vacuous, wishy-washy, lefty trendy articles out there that I really do tire of them. And I have replied to dozens of them over the years. I still might do a point by point rebuttal, but in the meantime my friend Mark Rabich already did a great job of refuting his foolishness. Here is what he wrote:

    1. The Golden Rule compels us to uphold the truth of normal sexual expression. The Golden Rule never circumvents God’s own sexual paradigm.

    2. We must balance 1 Cor 5 with Mt 5 – to be salt and light, and other scripture. If we have an opportunity to speak for God’s glory, we should.

    3. You just spent point 2 telling us to get out of society. Now you want to tell us how it should look. ????

    4. Marriage is not defined by people but by God. Your convoluted reasoning will only result in you being punished if you do not conform to their ‘pluralism’. Newsflash: the world will not give you space, they will stomp on you. Your legal freedom will be gone. It’s already happening in Canada and elsewhere.

    5. The irony of your position is breathtaking. You actually recognise that the church is losing its ability to speak into society, but you want to argue to do nothing about that.

    6. Loving your neighbour is subservient to loving God. We cannot love apart from Him. Also, we love as defined by God, not by the world’s corrupted version of it. Love includes telling the truth. Jesus loved perfectly and the world hated Him enough to kill Him. Many Christians like you seem to think the world will welcome the love of God. No, the world actually hates it; they love darkness. We don’t act as clanging cymbals, but we recognise the offence of the cross and can’t avoid it.

    7. What’s more damaging to the gospel is people who seem to fear man rather than fear God.

    8. Yet, here you are coercing. SMH

    9. You have imbibed the paradigm of the world in terms of sexual identity. Show me one scripture or even scientific evidence that supports the idea of ‘sexual orientation’. Twin studies have proved the idea false. Plus the concept has no applicability to me personally.

    10. Then why write about it? To explain clarity of biblical teaching? or to posture?

    It’s simple. God CREATED humans in two versions, and given the opportunity to at least affirm that before God, you want to sit it out?

    Whilst bakers and florists are losing their businesses, and children are taught that they can be the opposite sex, I wouldn’t like to be you standing before God for all the wealth of the world. I simply cannot believe that ostensible ministers of God are capable of such garbled and self-contradictory thinking, jettisoning a clear opportunity to simply say, male and female, for the sake of appearing to be smart. As someone threatened 11 years ago at work on this issue (for something quite innocuous outside), I am very unimpressed. I will likely lose my ongoing work on this. Are you loving me? No.

  • It took me a while to find Rev John Wilson’s statement on the plebiscite. It’s at www.presbyterian.org.au/ (you left off the “au” Bob).

    What do you think of it, Bill?

    I think it starts weak (“urges”, “without binding consciences”, “consider supporting the NO vote”,) but then in the middle it switches to strongly advocate the scriptural truth about marriage. But it’s troubling that while it asks Presbyterians to “persuade as many of their family and friends”, it doesn’t equip the believer with our best arguments against sodomite marriage:- religious freedom, the effect on children/adoption, making safe school and gender ideology compulsory in schools, etc.

    Maybe they should have included a link to this website!

  • Thanks Bill,

    A line has to be drawn in the sand: “Thus far and no further…” Job 38:8-11.

    Great message for such a time as this from my friend Dylan Oaks: sweetrivers.blogspot.com.au/2017/08/the-courage-of-esther-for-such-time-as.html

  • Great article Bill!

    The simple reason why some “Christians” advocate for or support that which Bible scripture clearly condemns, is that:

    It’s entirely possible to be very very religious and yet not belong to Jesus. Entirely possible to be a life long church attender and not be “born again”; to never have felt the need to sincerely repent before God, and therefore to have effectively not been “baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin” and to therefore not have received the “gift of the Holy Spirit”. (Acts 2:38); therefore such as these are not Christian at all but remain “the natural man” spoken of at 1 Corinthians 2:14, and they do not belong to Christ; as the following scripture makes clear.

    Romans 8:9
    “However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”

    1 Corinthians 2:14
    “But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.”

  • Sadly Bill, you are very true and correct. Where are the people taught from an open Bible? The truth has not been and is not been taught, with a very few exceptions. Many, most ‘pastors’ are ignorant of the truth of God’s Word.
    Thank you for sharing truth.

  • In case you’ve not read it this article may explain why some leaders are failing so badly to uphold what the Bible says – it’s not relevant to them.

    stream.org/progressive-christians-tend-to-put-politics-over-theology/

  • Thank you Bill. Well done.

  • Well said Bill. Yes, I have often been attacked by Christians for taking a stand against evolution as it will turn people against Christianity, they say. Wow! makes me realize how distant Christians, so called, are from God’s word. Sad!

  • That furphy of “not imposing morality” deserves to be exposed for what it is.

    Society does have an expectation that morality be imposed, and also that transgressing moral standards will have a consequence. Thusly, we don’t accept fraud, theft, neglect of children, etc. These are moral issues; the consequences of not adhering to moral standards vary – there are intrinsic consequences and imposed consequences. The imposed consequences are enacted to protect others from the actions of the selfish moral relativists.

  • In my comments to the media and on the internet, to combat the lie “marriage equality” I have started calling them marriage wreckers as in “Those who go under the banner of marriage wreckers…” or “the marriage wreckers in society..”

  • THANK YOU! Thank you for standing up and speaking for GOD!

    Jeremiah 23 was my Bible reading a couple of days ago and my thoughts matched yours. When I consider who God is and all that He has done for me and for all sinners who have turned to Him, confessed and repented of our sins and are now following Him I struggle with anger at how the proclaiming “church”, the supposed “bride” of Christ Jesus are treating Him.

    I passed sorrow over this issue long ago and am appalled and angry at the treatment of my God in institutions and organizations and by individuals who “claim” Him. No. Sorry, but no… they are not following Him, they are not representing Him and if they ever truly KNEW the Almighty triune God then they have turned their backs on Him. Talk about grieving the Holy Spirit ….

    I pray each morning for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit on God’s people, that He would wake us up and call us up and stand us up- for HIM. For those false teachers, those mushy, lukewarm “proclaiming” Christians I pray that God will either straighten them up so they do become His or that He shut them down and stop them from sharing a false gospel and stop them from deceiving others.

    How many who claim Him no longer spend any time daily in prayer and reading the Bible, rather they are looking to Sunday in the church pew or small groups or other “programs” to “teach” them … is this the root issue? How many claim God but do not KNOW God? Do not know His history with His creation and His creatures, know who HE says He is, perhaps do not even know the true gospel? Have you written on this, if so will you please share that link?

    If we are God’s then we need to stand for God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit and we need to KNOW and share the gospel and the written Word of God and encourage all who claim Him to get away to a quiet spot each day with God and an open Bible. This modern neutral or silent stance on homosexuality and abortion is an insult to the atonement of Jesus the Christ. And these wolves in the pulpits … grrrrrrrrr.

    So now my question for you; as a spiritually mature Christian, am I being too harsh in my prayers for God to sift the wheat from the chaff? If so, I would appreciate your direction on how I should be praying about this matter because it weighs heavily on me and poor God hears about it a lot from me. Thank you for this article and thank you for your direction. May God bless you, protect you, guide you, keep you and continue to use you to speak His Holy Truth.

  • Many thanks indeed Dawn. I appreciate your passion and devotion for God and the gospel. As to praying for a sifting, I would say that is a perfectly biblical and vitally needed prayer to make. And as I said in my piece, I think things like the fake marriage debate is one key means by which we can separate the sheep from the goats. It shows fairly clearly those who belong to Christ and revere his word and those who don’t. Bless you.

  • Dear Anthony, Nathan Campbell had only one good point and that is in No. 7 when he calls out the ACL for deliberately avoiding any mention of Jesus in their public statements.

    Is denying Jesus an acceptable price to pay to defend traditional marriage?

    Is advocating for equality for sodomites in all areas of the law other than marriage — as Lyle Shelton and Jim Wallace have done — an acceptable price to pay to preserve traditional marriage?

  • Sir Robert Anderson in his classic, The Silence of God pointed out long ago that a certain Serpent came first in the guise of a philanthropist purporting to offer new, liberating theological insights to humanity…

    May we not safely work from the premise that the “foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom” (1 Corinthians 1:25 [NET])? Therefore, the case for biblical marriage as a divine creation ordinance, valid for all sons and daughters of our first parents from the dawn of human existence must ultimately hold good against all other “more recently evolved” mutations of the original, canonical Edenic bond between man and woman.

  • Nathan Campbell:
    Let me guess … trendy Nathan Campbell supports gay rights, immigration status for boat people, abortion on the wishes of the mother, Labour and the Greens, transgender operations on children, he loves all the ABC programs, he thinks Genesis chapters 1 to 10 is mythical and has serious doubts about most of the miracles in the rest of the Bible – like the 10 plagues of Egypt for instance, he supports mass immigration of Muslims, he calls Islam a religion of peace, he is pro-euthanasia, he is a keen advocate for all things Politically Correct, he conveniently forgets that gender is defined at the DNA level and believes that a person’s gender really can be changed, and is passionately opposed to all fundamentalist, “the Bible is the truth” Christians. Nothing new here. This is just the result of elevating man’s ideas above God’s word, and setting yourself up as judge over the truth of the Word of God. Exactly the same as the clergy who supported slavery in England, the clergy who support evolution, the clergy who support any Biblical teaching that is no longer trendy.

  • Marriage is a Gospel issue.
    The Church is the Bride of Christ.
    Believers are destined to take part in the Marriage Feast of the Lamb.
    However, non-believers will not be there.
    If the society we live in does not acknowledge that marriage is as God defines it, the devil will have won back some territory.
    But he is a defeated foe, so his “victory” is a) illegitimate and b) shortlived

  • I read Nathan Campbell’s piece a few days ago – to sum it up concisely – just another mixture of fine sounding arguments thrown into the one bucket! It is not a matter of imposing anything but rather being a witness for Christ and being the salt and light of the Earth before those around us. I am about to be thrown in the deep end on this matter as my son who recently got married and who was brought up according to Biblical principles has just found out that his brother in law may be a homosexual and his wife and her whole family have been pouring out buckets of support for him, he knows how I feel about this so I will be praying plenty for him and seeking to guide him and help him to stand firm, I hope his wife puts her love for my son and their newborn before her brother’s lifestyle!

  • There is no such thing as equal marriage. It’s a physiological impossibility. Only heterosexuals can provide the complementary role of mother and father. Only they can provide the possibility of procreation and only they can engage in a form of sexual activity to which the human body is physiologically suited. Equal marriage is the mantra of the flat earthers. Followers of the tooth fairy.

  • This is what Father Rod Bower of the Anglican Parish of Gosford has said:

    My Dear Christian Sisters and Brothers.
    Greetings and Peace.
    I write to confirm that I will be voting YES for Marriage Equality.
    I acknowledge and respect that many of you may interpret the bible in different ways to me, but I do not intend to enter into a debate on these issues here as they have already been canvased enough in other places. I appreciate the rich tapestry and diversity of Christian expression in this country, and even within my own church. I encourage and support you in living out your private life within the framework of your particular expression of faith. I also intend to remain faithful to my understanding of Christianity, and seek your prayers for me to do so.
    Rather I would encourage you to reflect for a moment on what it means to live in a secular democracy and the benefits that affords to us, especially our freedom to worship and believe as we see fit. I know that some are suggesting that those freedoms are under threat, and I agree that there may be an argument for them to be strengthened. In this case I would encourage you to support the campaign for a ‘bill of rights’, but that is a conversation for another time.
    In the mean time the most effective way to stand up for our own rights is to stand up for the rights of others. None of us are free until all of us are free.
    Perhaps the real debate should be around how we live as loving neighbors in unity and diversity.
    Even though you may not personally believe in same sex marriage, I believe that one of the over arching themes of the gospels is justice, and all justice is social.
    Marriage Equality is an issue of justice and we can all support this issue without denying our personal faith.
    Please vote YES.
    With every kindness.

  • For those of us with children, this letter from Mr Bower is an absolute insult and a kick in the guts. We have already seen in multiple countries how similar legislation has been used to close schools, retract home education, and remove children from their parents and deposit them in residential care.

    The Victorian government is already force feeding children pornography. The legislation that Mr Boxer refuses to discuss because he has heard it all before will absolutely leave parents with no means to protect their children – being compelled by the state to inflict pornography is not a matter for a Bill of Rights, and nor can it be wafted away until “another time”. His arrogance is breathtaking; his sugar coating of “every kindness” is insincere.

  • Yes quite right Karen.

  • I have carefully replied to the person who so objected to my suggested leaflets (see Bruce Knowling above).

    This is in part what I replied;
    “May I ask a question or two?
    Your reply seems to indicate that homosexual acts, buggery, and sodomy, are no longer sins to be repented of, or to be forgiven, or to even be avoided.
    Is that right?
    Similarly, that these acts have no regrettable negative effect on the actors, on families, on our medical system, on society, or indeed on the church.
    Is that right?
    Surely I am not being asked to agree?”

    We will see whether this bring a sober reply from the “evangelical” or whether the red mist goes up again.

    Sometimes I think that those in favour of SSM, give no thought to what is indeed done in private, hence the unpleasant words used in my reply.

  • Keep standing strong Bruce.

  • Bower’s letter is scary. Leaving aside all the other issues, and there’s many, he suggests those who ‘think’ our religious freedom is under attack should support a ‘Bill of Rights’. Last time I heard a serious discussion on that issue the speakers were clear that such a document would in no way shape or form be a positive. I forget the specifics now but I believe it would entail more power being given to the AHRC, and that unelected prejudiced individuals such as those belonging to that organisation would most likely be responsible for drafting what freedoms we would be permitted to keep. In effect, Bowers suggests that those concerned about the loss of religious freedom ought to take steps to ensure their loss of religious freedom. Of course he’s a Progressive so more interested in promoting correct politics than correct theology but … ;-;

  • An excellent summary, Andrew!

  • We need to read Romans 1 again, and note the reason God gives people up to uncleanness and homosexuality in all its forms, it’s because they refuse to acknowledge that God is the creator of all things. The theory of evolution has been taught and accepted for years and now we are beginning to see the results. Remove the foundations and the house crumbles. I never thought I would see the day when people would accept such immoral activity and then approve those who propagate and approve it. Romans 1: 18-32.

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